• ABOUT
    XIM News & Information.
  • STORE
    Purchase XIM Products.
  • FORUM
    Join The Community.

Author Topic: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!  (Read 6410 times)

Offline roads

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 17602
    • View Profile
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #165 on: 07:20 AM - 11/01/13 »
Blah blah blah then
mittyz: that's my goal in life...get one of my comments/statements in someones sig.
Humble: But just a general rule, roads will never be satisfied
The roads list http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=33299.0
Bone PS4 | XIM4 | Latest | Benq XL2720-B | Hayate | Orbweaver+Teensy | Sony PS4 Gold | G502 | D:12K | P:1000 | COD ?

Offline Quad Damage

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 640
    • View Profile
  • Gamertag: MR SCHULTZ
  • PSN ID: MR_SCHULTZ
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #166 on: 07:33 AM - 11/01/13 »
Yes I really laughed at it and I dont even know who the guy is.

Dana Carvey impresonating a Sony console designer, I think.

Offline PS3_UK

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 574
    • View Profile
  • PSN ID: Rambo_Grandad
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #167 on: 08:22 AM - 11/01/13 »

He can make more money and invest his time into XIM4 which is the better business choice.

It's not complicated.

Yet another blanket statement that it doesn’t make business sense to roll out a firmware upgrade, without any explanation at all of WHY you think this is the case.

The only reason I can think of why a firmware upgrade doesn’t make business sense is if it takes ages to produce. I don’t have the tech knowledge to comment on this.

Subject to this point:

-       A paid for firmware upgrade is something which he can sell at a very high profit margin. He designs the software. He encrypts it. People download it for payment. There are far fewer costs involved in that than in building and shipping an XIM4.

-       Then release XIM4 down the line with additional functionality/ performance.

-       Does the release of the firmware impact on XIM4 sales? Well, (i) arguably the effect would be limited assuming XIM4 has sufficient extra functionality/ performance, and (ii) even if it does, if the profit margin per unit on the new firmware is close enough to the projected figure for the XIM4, then it doesn’t matter anyway. He would need to give some thought to pricing the firmware. The question is NOT how much it costs him to develop/ sell the firmware and then add say a 10% margin (presumably this would result in a small sale price). The question is ‘what price will the market bear’ and it will bear a high price here. $30 doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

-       Also, give some thought to whether to limit the functionality of the firmware to make the XIM4 more desirable and/or whether to discount the XIM4 for people who bought the firmware. This isn’t black and white and also needs some thought. Depends on a lot of factors, including the expected capabilities of the XIM4.

-       If it takes him 3-4 months to get to market with the XIM4 then without any doubt at all people will buy other things to allow them to use next gen. Money which could be going to OBsIV. As soon as he knows how long the firmware could take, and assuming it's under 1 month, he could release an announcement straight away saying how long it'll take to come out. That will stop people buying other stuff.

-       Finally, from a customer engagement perspective, people (including me) want to play on next gen with M/KB as soon as possible.

Where exactly do you think I’m going wrong here? Apart from the point about the time cost of developing the firmware which I imagine only OBsIV himself can really comment on - and even he probably doesn’t have certainty as to the position until he receives a next gen console. And don’t you want to play with M/KB on next gen straight away??

(No more blanket statements like  ‘it doesn’t make business sense’ or ‘it’s like asking MS for 1080p’ without covering explanations, please! :) Microsoft will have very, very carefully considered the business case before making their decision on hardware capability, probably with hundreds of meetings between execs and tech people.  It won’t just be some guy saying ‘I don’t want to,’ like a 7 year old!)
Mouse: R.A.T. 9/ C4 Ngen mousepad
Keyboard: Logitech G13 (modded thumbstick)
Monitor: Eizo FS2333
Sound: You don't want to know

Offline mindworm22

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 2234
  • "I'm your huckleberry..."
    • View Profile
  • PSN ID: Liquidboy
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #168 on: 08:27 AM - 11/01/13 »
Gents -

He's done this a while.  I'm surprised at how many feel entitled and the amount of hubris in deciding how hard or easy it should be for him to do his thing. 

1)  If he has a PS4 or XBone, he's f-ing under NDA.  So complain all you want about wanting to know direction, he can't say he's active or not.  Simple as that. 

2)  EDGE and XIM3 were made for the PS3 and 360.  Nowhere did he ever say you'd have use of that peripheral in perpituity.   The sheer amount of arrogance in assuming that since they have wired controllers it's "just a simple upgrade" is ingorant on many different levels. 

3)  He said it is expected to be out no later than Q1 2014.  That's fantastic.  Short of being a licensed partner (which he's clearly not) I don't know how anyone could expect much more.

4)  If someone wants to go to a competitor -- bye bye.  We all know what you'll be getting and so do you.  Oh yeah, btw, THERE IS NO ONE WITH A KBAM PRODUCT FOR PS4 OR XBONE.  Period.

So really, go where? 

5)  This is a business like any other.  He has development costs, time invested, etc. etc. etc.  He has a right to make a profit how he sees fit.  If you don't like it, see #4. 


Buy next gen now and use sticks for 4 months or hold off until after holiday.  Choice is yours.   
   


"You beat that horse to a bloody pulp in that circle-jerk of a thread .... and then poured the remains in a blender, pureed them, and gargled the leftovers. How you're not sick of it is beyond me." --- RookCheck

Offline roads

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 17602
    • View Profile
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #169 on: 08:47 AM - 11/01/13 »
Its very simple, its his decision.
mittyz: that's my goal in life...get one of my comments/statements in someones sig.
Humble: But just a general rule, roads will never be satisfied
The roads list http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=33299.0
Bone PS4 | XIM4 | Latest | Benq XL2720-B | Hayate | Orbweaver+Teensy | Sony PS4 Gold | G502 | D:12K | P:1000 | COD ?

Offline RML

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 2367
  • Soldier Up!
    • View Profile
  • Gamertag: RockyMtn Legend ... BG Jimmy Bones
  • PSN ID: RockyMtn_Legend
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #170 on: 09:13 AM - 11/01/13 »
Gents -

He's done this a while.  I'm surprised at how many feel entitled and the amount of hubris in deciding how hard or easy it should be for him to do his thing. 

1)  If he has a PS4 or XBone, he's f-ing under NDA.  So complain all you want about wanting to know direction, he can't say he's active or not.  Simple as that. 

2)  EDGE and XIM3 were made for the PS3 and 360.  Nowhere did he ever say you'd have use of that peripheral in perpituity.   The sheer amount of arrogance in assuming that since they have wired controllers it's "just a simple upgrade" is ingorant on many different levels. 

3)  He said it is expected to be out no later than Q1 2014.  That's fantastic.  Short of being a licensed partner (which he's clearly not) I don't know how anyone could expect much more.

4)  If someone wants to go to a competitor -- bye bye.  We all know what you'll be getting and so do you.  Oh yeah, btw, THERE IS NO ONE WITH A KBAM PRODUCT FOR PS4 OR XBONE.  Period.

So really, go where? 

5)  This is a business like any other.  He has development costs, time invested, etc. etc. etc.  He has a right to make a profit how he sees fit.  If you don't like it, see #4. 


Buy next gen now and use sticks for 4 months or hold off until after holiday.  Choice is yours.   
   

Wow... I actually agree with you, nicely said.  :)

I understand everyones excitement but chill people. Atleast we are nearly garaunteed an XIM product for next gen. and sooner then we should have logically anticipated. Things really couldnt have gone much better at this point. Q1 is an awesome goal for the XIM team and I for one appreciate the sense of urgency and the high expectations that are being set.
 
Xbox | C:MS | XIM4 | Latest | Samsung 24" LED Monitor | Pad: Steel Series | Sony Nav | A: Seinnheiser 558/Mod mic | M:G502 | D:8000 | P:500 | Angle Snapping [ON] | COD HIP:22 ADS:13

Offline roads

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 17602
    • View Profile
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #171 on: 09:16 AM - 11/01/13 »
You guys with a XIM2 I am quite sure W11ce will be able to make something for us work in the meantime. My XIM2 is packed and ready to go to the tech-butcher.
mittyz: that's my goal in life...get one of my comments/statements in someones sig.
Humble: But just a general rule, roads will never be satisfied
The roads list http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=33299.0
Bone PS4 | XIM4 | Latest | Benq XL2720-B | Hayate | Orbweaver+Teensy | Sony PS4 Gold | G502 | D:12K | P:1000 | COD ?

Offline ak-xs

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 6503
  • I'm what you call a player of non sens xD
    • View Profile
    • don't click here!
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #172 on: 09:27 AM - 11/01/13 »
i'm so glad some people do get it, even people with single digit post count understand.

some others clearly want someone to explain to them in detail all there is to it but i bet if i made  a long post you wouldn't read it. it's not just clap your hands and you have a FW update it's not just pay X amount and you get an encryption and it's not just the distribution of said encryption cracked that concerns.

have you even stopped to consider IF current XIMs have the memory to get a FW like that? it's not like it's a mighty big update but then again those devices have incredibly small memory. changing the code at this point means changing a lot of the software in general it's not just add a new feature and your done and that means a LOT of work more than just make the feature in itself



even tuff said it, the XIM4 can be designed and made completely without OB having a clue or ever seen a next gen console. the only thing he would need is to then add a FW update. both consoles will use USB so there is not a single reason why he can't make the hardware. there are no rare parts or hard to get one's it's all abundant, it's quick to manufacture i don't see any reason for delays..

OBsIV is giving us a time frame where he is accounting for the time it can take at max to get the XIM working in next gen, not what the time it should take which should be less. that's the main thing we will be waiting for..




on the business decision, look it's really simple a new XIM will come sooner or later, so doing it now means 1 investment and full revenue from those who want it. magic FW update means 2 investments and many that get it won't buy a XIM4, not everyone is swimming in cash like some of you, in fact most of the XIMers are not willing to pay more than once and the less they can.

a XIM4 can be cheaper and better than current XIMs combined. it can work on all 4 consoles, effectively claiming a crown that is unprecedented.




and i never intended to say that OBsIV does not have to be concerned at all about competition, sure he has because everything is possible. but some don't seem to understand that programming and making software is not a dark magic. competition cannot make STs in a legal way because there are not a lot of ways to make them. from what i understand of the process, which isn't a lot, there are some parts of it that have to be done that single way, which is protected.

making Standard translator level software is one thing, "anyone" can do it. making an ST level competitor without breaking the law would be MIT level stuff, or Sony/Logitech/blabla level of resources and it would take quite the investment both in time and money. to date, no big firm wants to be anywhere near kb&m adaptors for consoles i fail to see why that would change..
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/_WsqQtqwP9E" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/_WsqQtqwP9E</a>

Offline OBsIV

  • Administrator
  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 18037
  • It's obsessive.
    • View Profile
    • OBsIV's Blog
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #173 on: 09:28 AM - 11/01/13 »
I'm going to be direct because I believe that's what is required in this case. We will not spend a even nanosecond toward a firmware update for Edge/XIM3 to work on next-gen. A firmware update of this kind requires a specialized DRM system be built around ensuring a reliable pay-upgrade system (new software, servers, per-device encryption, new purchasing system, testing, etc.). A substantial investment. Edge/XIM3 will, of course, continue to be supported (new STs) as long as games are made for current-gen. There is a new XIM in development -- that's where the energy and focus is going. Period.
Get the most out of your XIM4, read the XIM4 Support FAQ.

Offline ak-xs

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 6503
  • I'm what you call a player of non sens xD
    • View Profile
    • don't click here!
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #174 on: 09:32 AM - 11/01/13 »
I'm going to be direct because I believe that's what is required in this case. We will not spend a even nanosecond toward a firmware update for Edge/XIM3 to work on next-gen. A firmware update of this kind requires a specialized DRM system be built around ensuring a reliable pay-upgrade system (new software, servers, per-device encryption, new purchasing system, testing, etc.). A substantial investment. Edge/XIM3 will, of course, continue to be supported (new STs) as long as games are made for current-gen. There is a new XIM in development -- that's where the energy and focus is going. Period.

thank you for putting this to rest. and for what it matters (i don't think it does to you xD) i for one support your decision and would be shocked if it was any different
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/_WsqQtqwP9E" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/_WsqQtqwP9E</a>

Offline RML

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 2367
  • Soldier Up!
    • View Profile
  • Gamertag: RockyMtn Legend ... BG Jimmy Bones
  • PSN ID: RockyMtn_Legend
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #175 on: 09:34 AM - 11/01/13 »
;D  ^ AK, Obs may completely ignore you at times (as we all do, lol... jk) but he still cares brah... dont fret!  ;)







« Last Edit: 09:39 AM - 11/01/13 by RML »
Xbox | C:MS | XIM4 | Latest | Samsung 24" LED Monitor | Pad: Steel Series | Sony Nav | A: Seinnheiser 558/Mod mic | M:G502 | D:8000 | P:500 | Angle Snapping [ON] | COD HIP:22 ADS:13

Offline roads

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 17602
    • View Profile
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #176 on: 09:39 AM - 11/01/13 »
With all this bad news around the ONE I am really really happy for the Q1 news.
mittyz: that's my goal in life...get one of my comments/statements in someones sig.
Humble: But just a general rule, roads will never be satisfied
The roads list http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=33299.0
Bone PS4 | XIM4 | Latest | Benq XL2720-B | Hayate | Orbweaver+Teensy | Sony PS4 Gold | G502 | D:12K | P:1000 | COD ?

Offline RML

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 2367
  • Soldier Up!
    • View Profile
  • Gamertag: RockyMtn Legend ... BG Jimmy Bones
  • PSN ID: RockyMtn_Legend
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #177 on: 09:53 AM - 11/01/13 »
I'm going to be direct because I believe that's what is required in this case. We will not spend a even nanosecond toward a firmware update for Edge/XIM3 to work on next-gen. A firmware update of this kind requires a specialized DRM system be built around ensuring a reliable pay-upgrade system (new software, servers, per-device encryption, new purchasing system, testing, etc.). A substantial investment. Edge/XIM3 will, of course, continue to be supported (new STs) as long as games are made for current-gen. There is a new XIM in development -- that's where the energy and focus is going. Period.

I knew this yet everytime I read it my face hurts all over again (grinning from ear to ear).
Xbox | C:MS | XIM4 | Latest | Samsung 24" LED Monitor | Pad: Steel Series | Sony Nav | A: Seinnheiser 558/Mod mic | M:G502 | D:8000 | P:500 | Angle Snapping [ON] | COD HIP:22 ADS:13

Offline saint72

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 225
    • View Profile
  • PSN ID: saint72
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #178 on: 09:58 AM - 11/01/13 »
I'm going to be direct because I believe that's what is required in this case. We will not spend a even nanosecond toward a firmware update for Edge/XIM3 to work on next-gen. A firmware update of this kind requires a specialized DRM system be built around ensuring a reliable pay-upgrade system (new software, servers, per-device encryption, new purchasing system, testing, etc.). A substantial investment. Edge/XIM3 will, of course, continue to be supported (new STs) as long as games are made for current-gen. There is a new XIM in development -- that's where the energy and focus is going. Period.

Happy days! :)

A pre-order for forum members would be nice before the Amazon brigade get there hands on it :)

Offline roads

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 17602
    • View Profile
Re: You can buy PS4 Controllers now. Xim team start!
« Reply #179 on: 10:06 AM - 11/01/13 »
Yes good point. The preorders are great news number two. If now full live editing and local/global switchers are in, I will melt away.
mittyz: that's my goal in life...get one of my comments/statements in someones sig.
Humble: But just a general rule, roads will never be satisfied
The roads list http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=33299.0
Bone PS4 | XIM4 | Latest | Benq XL2720-B | Hayate | Orbweaver+Teensy | Sony PS4 Gold | G502 | D:12K | P:1000 | COD ?